Cloudveil Team Responds to Your Concerns
Posted on Monday, April 26th, 2010
We recently went back and read some of the responses to our blog post about the transfer of ownership of Cloudveil. First, thanks to you all just for taking the time to voice your opinion. It speaks to your passion about the brand, and while some opinions were not so great, we think it’s a good sign that you care enough to express them.
In reading the posts, we thought it might be helpful to address a couple of recurring points.
Product availability and the web site — This is a major issue for consumers, pros and friends and family of Cloudveil. Here are a few facts about the spring situation:
• At the time we purchased Cloudveil, Spyder the previous owner, had sold all spring inventory of goods. As new owners there was nothing for us to buy for our own personal use. This has created a true shortage of product.
• For a variety of reasons, very little extra stock for spring was purchased back in fall 2009 (that is how long it takes to get product). This compounded the lack of availability for consumers.
• After April 1, the Cloudveil web site was not designed to sell online simply because there was nothing to sell.
The combination of these factors is why you can’t purchase anything for spring in the same way you have done in the past. Stock is available at select dealers, including online retailers listed on our web site.
So if I am excusing myself from the problems people are having on these issues, what are we doing about it? Fall 2010 will be shown on the web site in late summer. It will, as always, show product and help the consumer buy the product. When we come back, it will be with the objective to have a robust web site with great product at good prices.
Another major theme is Jackson, Wyoming:
The fall 2010 line, which will be available at retail shops and online in the fall, was designed, developed and tested in many places — including Jackson Hole — in early 2009. On our watch, the Cloudveil product plans are the same. We are dedicated and passionate mountain enthusiasts, and while we may not live in JH, we will continue the Cloudveil mission with a commitment to honest communication, innovation without excess, and quality without compromise. We’ll test the gear in Jackson Hole, and we’ll probably test it at your mountain, too.
And while the Cloudveil store in Jackson is closing, our gear will still be available to the Jackson community. The offices may have moved and the players may have changed, but the heart and soul of the brand will always be there, and over the coming weeks, we’re going to be figuring out what we can do to continue Cloudveil’s involvement in the community.
But it’s easy to put all this in a blog post. We know we’re going to have to prove ourselves and re-earn your trust and support, so we hope you’ll give us that chance. To you folks that are standing behind us, thanks. To our detractors, we are motivated to demonstrate to you how a brand can be successful with a business that makes sense and is sustainable.
Thanks.
(Photo by Chuck Fryberger)
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• Message from New Cloudveil CEO Jim Reilly (March 31, 2010)
After looking and looking for spring product on other sites, i have a feeling Cloudveil is not putting up their spring collection online (even without online sales, a product line is nice to display so you can google individual pieces if desired) because they’re simply embarrassed about the offering and would rather have no display of it’s current lineup than reveal it and lose customers in the short run before this fall’s new line appears. Your fall line better be stellar! I wish you luck.
Oh, and get back to the original trim fit guys–i’ll be in a size small before you know it with the current sizing of ‘merica…
Good luck I hope you do it.
Just want to say that the Jackson Hole vibe is what differentiates Cloudveil. If you can’t keep that, you’re going to have trouble. (I’m a Southerner, by the way.) That said, I hope you can do it.
” Jackson as theme” Jackson is not a theme, it’s a town where people live. It’s the town where you closed the store and put people out of work. You dont live here and just saying your gear is inspired by a place you know nothing about is just called marketing.
It would be helpful if the spring/summer line were displayed on-line. Unless a retailer sells your entire line, it is very difficult to determine what products you are offering.
I hear the Ripley’s Believe It or Not is hiring.
Your statement said that in the Fall your website will “help the consumer buy the product”. I take that to mean we still won’t be able to BUY it on your website. This is unfortunate since it is hard to find Cloudveil in most retail stores, especially the full line. At best I will occasionally stumble across a item or two, usually in small stores not major retailers. I have always relied on the website for most of my Cloudveil purchases. Now I will be spending my money elsewhere and probably on merchandise from another company since the selection is usually better.
I would like to hear more from J Dipaola and his comments about the operation closing in Jackson Hole. If that is true I would be interested in hearing something from the new management about why that happened. And, I would like to hear more about the impact on the small community of Jackson Hole from Dipaola or someone who lives there. This certainly isn’t sounding very complimentary of the new company. That small town influence was notable in the product and it will be unfortunate to loose that. Not to mention that I love Jackson Hole and would hate to learn that it was negatively effected by this change in management.
I maid a sepcal trip to Jackson Hole back in early apr to come to the cloudveil store because i had been a longtime fan and user of there products only to find a empty store and empty offices! what a let down!
I hope them all the best
I maid ?? Really ?? Guess that sums up the future of Cloudveil and its customers…
Editor’s note — Some of you have written in with customer service questions about repair, return, etc. I have forwarded your inquiries to the new Cloudveil team, and you should hear back directly, rather than in comments.
Anyone else with customer service questions should contact cloud@cloudveil.com.
I want to clarify why I am upset about everything. I love Cloudveil. I just don’t understand why a company from CT had to buy Cloudveil. It shouldn’t make a difference that Cloudveil has been owned by a NY company since 2004. Of course I don’t want to bring that up, because then I will look like someone who doesn’t know what he is talking about.
I wish Cloudveil could be more authentic like K2 or Marmot. Being owned by a NY company that specializes in making crock-pots and mason jars really impacts their ability to make technical apparel. Or maybe Spyder shouldn’t have sold Cloudveil, but I guess that directive might have come from their NY owners. Hmmmm. Why didn’t I complain when prior to 2004 Cloudveil was majority owned by a group in Colorado but still tried to sell me on the Jackson Hole lifestyle? Have I been played for a fool for almost 10 years? Maybe I just need to realize none of this really matters since the ski jackets I have grown to love are made a billion miles outside of the U.S.
Ok, my rambling is done. Time to go to Sierra Trading Post where I can find some nice quality ski wear at reduced prices, albeit not as cheap as at the former Cloudveil retail store.
Here’s a tip: The “open” door facade that a blog or a forum is supposed to create, is not worth the negativity that it creates. Bad business decision.
Well, I feel a lot better now. Or not. Cloudveil is a JH brand or it isn’t. U pick Mr. Reilly. CMW was born here, but moved away. We locals know our environment tops all others so we’re reluctant to share billing. When you test at Taos or Crystal or Whiteface, put that on your jacket and sell it. Good luck there. Personally, I feel the locals will sacrifice your brand for more reasonably priced gear. Obviously not the rich old folks around here, but the real outdoors people can hardly rationalize buying 300-500 dollar pieces with any frequency. Besides, as any savvy bum or bag in JH knows,” Retail is for chumps”. (Keith@TM) Lastly, it would begin to approach journalism if Jim S. could write his short articles without the curse words. ( I’ll cuss w/the best of ‘em mind you) It just seems like a lack of vocabulary but interesting to note Mr. Reilly’s feelings on his initial appearance as a CEO are so welcoming to some.
I love how some people love to speak for all people from Jackson or Wyoming for that matter. Try using I or me or my. Like this. I don’t care where CMW is based as long as it is still quality I will by it. It is all good with ME. I just want outerwear that works on MY future outdoor trips.
It is unfortunate that a very poor transition occurred. I had been waiting all winter for the spring and summer line and have moved on to other brands because nothing was available for so long.
Buy Mountain Khaki or Powderhorn?
D., you’re right, it is all about you.
Mr. Gore, ain’t that the truth.
Mountain Khaki is based where? North Carolina maybe…bought one pair of cord shorts on sale and although nice and comfy, they lost a lot of pigment in the first wash;like enough to change the color!
Old powderhorn is bombproof, new powderhorn is pretty… and best of all, the two new pair of burton ak g-tex xcr bibs I scored yesterday at the thrift store only cost $20 a pair and came in a new Cloudveil bag. Choice!
I agree that the JH angle is mostly about marketing like one poster said. While i like the town, what’s so unique about Jackson? Is it really that different than Telluride or the ‘boat? You have gentrified mountain towns with mostly white, rich (and not so rich laborers paying the “mountain tax”), little boutiques, and obsurd real estate prices for the simply spectacular scenary. It’s simplification, i know. How does a town inspire clothing? In your arena, I’d say only patagonia has been able to brand a region or place successfully. Even Columbia makes great warm clothing that’ll keep you warm on the JH tram. Most of your stuff is a variation on a theme that every company makes –marmot, patagucci, arc, m hardwear, etc. The whole western wear-gone-goretex has been done by other companies now. Your hats with the teton skyline are perhaps the only thing that are “local.” I’d say powderhorn-weather you like their styles or not, are actually more western or Jackson-ish than Cloudveil’s branding. I always bought Cloudveil for the function (and unique softshells before everyone else had ‘em), not the supposed JH influence.
I understand branding and marketing, and each company needs to have their niche/brand or they won’t succeed–i’d only suggest that this brand, now without having roots in JH, may want to rethink its JH branding ideas since the locals aren’t on board at all these days and it’ll be tougher to sell in western mountain towns. As a former buyer, we always talked at OR about brand recognition. While the coasts may be your largest segment, you need everyone in the western mountain towns to be on-board too. What’s truly unique about Cloudveil and why would a customer want to buy it? I don’t think JH-inspired or tested is going to give you enough… good luck!
you know, i’m in disagreement with many of the posts, so lets put a few points out to you elite cloudveil lovers – just because the brand started in JH, doesn’t mean it is defined by JH; its bigger than that now, its like a band wagon sports thing, once it starts doing well, everyone wants a piece, because they went to jackson once, or their brother lives there, or they know where it is on the map, whatever. who cares? things change, businesses adapt. also, the new owners saved this brand from going under – what would you prefer, new ownership and continuation of the line, or nothing at all? also, do your research – K2 grew out of columbus, indiana – now its in seattle; the north face went from san fran to san leandro; mtn hardwear is in richmond, ca and is owned by columbia sports, etc etc. don’t be so quick to come down on CV for changing a few things for once. give it a chance, its a tough time right now and everyone’s working hard, especially the those involved in retail. CV makes things that help us enjoy what we love to do. as long as that doesn’t change, big deal. go get ‘em cloudveil!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLni3wbndls
used to use a lot of cloudveil gear when i was guiding fishing in the jackson hole area…for the price, and the now lacking website, i might as well stick with patagonia
Glad I stocked up on my favorites last summer. I liked being one of the only fishing guides in my area wearing the Cloudveil products. Guess If I need anything new this summer I’ll have to go back to the Pgucci
What a bummer! Another sellout! I too will be forced back to the Patagucci line… I hope they bring back a website and a pro program! It was great stuff – glad I bought some every year!
Well I guess we can see that Patron is successful………
Best of luck, been through a few of these myself and it is never easy. Good Luck Cloudveil!
if any of you have had a business degree or money, you should have bought the company yourselves and kept it here? but you don’t. so all you do is blog and whine. why would you even bother writing this crap. who cares about the cloudveil store? it will be in skinny skis or teton mountaineering. cloudveil since its start has put a huge dent in mkt share. do you really think somebody would spend millions of dollars and just let it fail? cloudveil will be better and stronger as soon as everything get put back together with a different business plan! just like the north face, patagonia, mt. hardware, and every other outdoor company. thanks cloudveil for the support over the yrs and i look forward to some of the best gear in the industry again in the fall!
“just like the north face”
Precisely what I’m afraid of. I’m sure that if you’re only looking at it from a pure, “business” end of things that North Face has been hugely successful, but in the process of becoming so, the quality of their stuff became completely mediocre and is hardly taken seriously by most hardcore outdoorspeople anymore. Too many times what is great for “business” is seen as the end all be all to the detriment of lots of other things.
Opinion on Cloudveil management changes:
I am betting Cloudveil will gain greater market share and larger profits but production and design quality will slowly deteriorate. Any private equity group like Windsong is primarily concerned about creating growth quickly and exiting at its peak (i.e going public or selling to a larger corporation). This means cost cutting, management changes, and new vendors. These are business guys running the show. They want to see large multiples.
I am predicting CV will move away from the high cost technical wear and produce more lifestyle products (i.e Patagonia) which appeal to a broader market. Unfortunately, that’s not why I buy CV apparel but I am sure that will be a reason why many other folks do. I just hope to see another few good product lines before CV changes direction.
This is just my opinion.
I have seen it from the start of “frost Line and Gerry” to you name it “Hullarbar”, we all are whores for the outdoors otherwise we would still be buying Army Surplus stuff, and that is how REI started and now they sell toys of people doing climbing like stuff, just get outside and and get wet and dry off or pull on a WOOL sweater and bite your lip. “Bivouacs” French for it’s going to be a long cold night. Whoever dies with the most Label outdoor gear, wins. what have we all become? shame on us all. I am old enough to remember baseball hats without a logo on it or a rain jacket with the label in the inside not on the outside. the Ganks in the 60’s and gas for 50 cents. Shame on us all.
So are the cloudveil offices moving to Connecticut? I saw something about Massachusetts too- where will the people that make the clothes be?
How do you spell hypocrite J Dipaola Jr.? We are a small retail shop that has proudly carried Cloudveil since it’s inception. We are just as concerned for the health of the company as many long time fans of the apparel, but I can’t believe the disconnect in your logic. How can anyone expect these small, niche lines to stay in business when their customers do everything in their power to “not” purchase the product at retail. When you purchase something at 50% off from big online retailers or discount shops, not only is the core retailer losing money, but the vendor (i.e. Cloudveil) will only see decreases in orders from all of it’s retailers who can’t make any income from selling the line. See the pattern? If you truly value a product, speak with your well earned dollars and support the company. This perceived sense of entitlement for cheap, but quality outdoor gear is a joke. If you want good stuff, pay for it. If not, go to Wally World and purchase some Columbia with the rest of the masses. P.S. K2 and Marmot sold out a very long time ago.
Hey Mtn Kid,
Don’t buy the hype. If someone waves a $400 Cloudveil jacket in my face and says $150, I buy it. I don’t ask myself, “how is mtn kid going to pay his rent this month?” No offense. I’m actually positive that we’d have a lot in common, but to say I’d pay more money to support Cloudveil begs the question, “who am I supporting?” I’m supporting a company that cut out a mom and pop retailer to sell their products at discount in their own store. I’m supporting a a company that laid off people at their headquarters and retail store in JH and still use JH in their marketing. I’m basically supporting some guys in Connecticut on the phone to China.
Now that everything is made in China (even Arc’teryx) I think it’s up to the new owners to innovate like Cloudveil did in the beginning. Right now (other than some flyfishing pieces) they’re just knocking off some of the brands you consider to be “sold-out”. They play up JH like they’re making it there, but really they’re just trying to pocket more money.
I’ll use Patron (one of Windsong’s other brands) as an example. Right now, it’s like I’m looking at a bottle of Patron that has lost its “Hecho in Mexico” stamp, and I’m thinking, “You’ve got a lot to prove.” I hope that with the new ownership we either see a whole lot of new and innovative stuff come out of Cloudveil or we see Patron at TJ Maxx and Sierra Trading Post!
On the subject of location. I live close to a center of east coast sailing. A business which locates in Severn MD will go unnoticed by anyone other than a local, while a business which claims Annapolis (a couple of miles from Severn) as their home will be recognized around the globe.
I try to be a conscious consumer and support the companies who exhibit dedication to quality products, environmental sustainability, extraordinary labor practices and commitment to the communities they represent. I paid extra for Cloudveil products for these reasons (and the clothing is usually perfect for my lifestyle). However, I will most likely not buy any new Cloudveil products unless there was a reestablishment of significant financial investment and employment in Jackson Hole. It is too bad this company has gone the way of NF and Montrail. I am beginning to worry if I will soon have to ski, climb, and run naked and barefoot.
Good points Wally. I would agree that no “brand name” is worth a premium to consumers unless that brand truly offers innovation, quality and a true commitment to the environments that help support their business and customers. The same goes for independent shops such as ours. Unless we spend the extra time searching the world and sourcing the absolute best products, regardless of who’s logo is on the tag, then we don’t deserve any special considerations. It’s a goal of ours, and hopefully a goal of the new Cloudveil ownership. If it isn’t, there are many niche brands waiting to step into the spotlight.
I have lived and spent over 15 years in JH – a transplant from CT – like many in JH. Frankly I’m amazed at the posts on here. All need to get the facts – the company was sold to 3 different buyers over the last 5 years. Those buyers left token employees in JH and kept a retail store that was effectively their outlet store for unsold merchandise. This new buyer, windsong has been honest and forthright with their plans. The previous buyers who kept a token founder on the payroll were full of shit. I love great technical product – Cloudveil hopefully will continue to craft great product. Good luck guys – consider me a loyal JH resident who will continue to support the brand – if you need to test product in JH – count me in! PS – patron tequila on the rocks – simply perfect!
I think it’s ridiculous and embarrassing that Cloudveil and its parent companies decided to remove all product information from the website and instead have potential customers hunt around various online retailers to find reliable information.
JH 24 is the only one who get’s it, thanks. I was getting tired of all the crying
about JH getting screwed by Cloudveil. If you want to beat on someone go after BP , now they are really messing things up in The Gulf. The Cloudveil problems now seem rather small, don’t they.
I’m afraid the brand is now losing momentum. Not even product info on the website (as far as I can see…). As far as the average consumer’s concerned it’s belly-up.
I’ve been tlking in favor of this brand since 2005. Tried to open people’s eyes internationally etc. Now I don’t know what to say. It’s a shame. the best thing that happened since Simms Goretex waders. Back to Simms I guess…
I own a fly fishing company that once carried Cloudveil because of their innovative products. What everyone needs to do is support their local small niche retail stores. Don’t feel bad for the Jackson Hole store closing down if you never went in and bought anything. Lack of support is what closes down stores. I stopped carrying Cloudveil when products became limited and we couldn’t reorder. Take SIMMS for example(Sometimes in March May be September) great company but retailers can’t buy product for 2010 anymore. They are out of stock for the year! This is why I search EVERY company for the best possible products. If Cloudveil has a great foul weather fishing jacket at a reasonable price I will stock it. If Patagonia, Simms, Orvis, or another supplier has a similar product at a similar or better price, I will stock that item. I knew about the Cloudveil transitions long before the customers did and to protect our local customers, we have decided to wait to purchase anything else from them until they get their affairs in order. Hopefully they will carry quality products they once offered and we can all be happy. We all need to get over ourselves and check out the true quality of the gear we buy instead of worrying about the labels. Almost all major outdoor companies are having gear made in China or overseas…why? because it is affordable. I would love all American made products in my store, but that is unrealistic these days. I am a fishing guide myself and stock my store with the gear I rely on every day. Forget labels and marketing….if you try on a product, it fits well, is made of quality material, and has a good warranty, buy it! If you aren’t satisfied, take it back! That’s how the world works. Just remember, specialty stores are around for customer convenience and customer service. If we don’t support the little guys we will all be buying from online discounters and not knowing what will show up at our door. Personally I like to put my hands on gear before I buy it and shake the hand of the person that sold it to me.
I personally traveled 250 miles out of my way last winter to make the trip to Jackson Hole SPECIFICALLY to go to Cloudveil (ok… I hit Simms in Bozeman too!). Needless to say it is hugely disappointing that you cannot order directly from Cloudveil any product. My take is that they really didn’t care about the direct web customers, retail customers and want to focus on growing the brand thru retailers. I love the gear but it’s time to find stuff that is cheaper, easier to obtain and whose business model is catering to the customer rather than turning them away…
I have a Koven jacket and two pair of Koven pants and love them. From what I see though, Cloudveil may be dead. No products to offer, different ownership, leaving JH; this doesn’t look good.
Arc’teryx and Marmot here I come…
Billy Goat’s points are dead on. We delude ourselves when we think business is about anything other than making a living. Sure, there are some altruistic business folks out there, but ultimately, the business has to survive and, if run well, thrive.
I’ve lived in the mountains 25 years. Summit County Colorado is probably as harsh a place as you’re going to find to do outdoor activities, +/- 10 degrees. So BFD if CV is not JH based. There are other harsh environments to live in. Take Fairbanks, for instance. What matters is whether CV understands the clothing needs of those who live and recreate in the mountains. It has been a good product line, albeit a bit on the spendy side. We’ll see if the new leadership can improve on the line and price. Time will tell. If it doesn’t meet your needs and price point, buy something that does — new or used.
Sounds like Cloudveil is in line as the next Colombia or Northface. Wonder when those companies last suspended their pro and friends of the industry programs…
Pros wearing your stuff = their clients and their friends wearing your stuff. Get it back to select retailers and mainsite only or you will loose what makes Cloudveil great. And agreed, fall better kick tail.
My Serendipity jacket is now 8 years old and still perfect: one of the best purchases of my life.
I am very, very disappointed in the current direction of Cloudveil.
I bought CV goods from year one and still have most of it. I really liked that goods were made in the US and Canada in the early years. The big `sell out’ was having most everything made in the far east. The only true local gear now is Westcomb and Outa Ware and that’s what I’ve been using for the past couple of years except for the Spyder uniform junk my employer issues. To be connected a company needs to be local. It’s hard work but otherwise all that’s on offer is the rehashed Chinese shlock. Look to companies like Mystery Ranch, Cold, Cold World, Western Mountaineering, Ibex (sort of) and Feathered Friends. Selling more items is just the Target model. I’ll use my old CV stuff until it dies but I sure won’t be buying any more and that makes me sad because CV had some great ideas and excellent goods.
As cool and authentic as CV’s original business model was it was not working. Complainers cannot blame the new leadership for this, it was the founders who chose to grow it faster than could be sustained. It takes extreme amounts of discipline, like Feathered Friends or Cilo Gear, to stay small and core, and when you find success it is so tempting to just let distribution fly because the growth is so exciting. Rather, to keep it truly core with HQ in JH etc, the founders should have agreed on a number and capped it, but this takes unimaginable resolve and commitment to a core set of values. So what I’m saying is, as core as the founders may seem, they weren’t core enough….they were the ones swayed by the $ and let distribution spin beyond what they could manage from JH, probably without even realizing it. But…hindsight is 20/20. Knowing when to say “no, that’s it, we’re sold out” is very tough, it pisses off a lot of people, but that is the kind of resolve it takes to keep a Brand core.
Fortunately, CV still exists. So for all you complainers, and all you bad ass JH locals who think no one else knows how to ski, your pretty little downtown store is probably gone either way. Would you rather have the original business model but the the Brand completely bankrupt and out of existence or the current model, for what it’s worth, and probably still some more cool gear to come…? And if that was really Jason Tattersall on May 5th post he could probably outshred anyone of you complainers and even he is saying get over it.
mountainboy — well said my friend.
Although I am sad to hear that Cloudveil as we know it is no more, this may be a good opportunity for the brand (and its customers!) to look at what it wants to be.
I personally will be looking for small companies, locally made product, and quality and innovation in the line. Anyone who believes that the only way for a clothing company to “make it” is to have everything contracted out in China is dead wrong, and missing a real opportunity. Take Coordarounds (now called Betabrands) — a SF company that makes great pants and jackets. **Everything** they offer is designed and made in SF California. The have even released some great looking blue jeans made in SF with denim sourced from Georgia, USA. Their price point is reasonable, and worth every cent… Their marketing is savvy, and they know their customer base (trendy urban types). If they can do it, there is a model for this kind of market.
Cloudveil out of angling biz? « The Fiddle and Creel says: August 18th, 2010 at 9:05 am
[...] did however find an interesting collection of opinions on the sale of Cloudveil to a private equity group, and the future of Cloudveil as a [...]
I always liked being one of the few guides to sport Cloudveil gear on the river. I gradually switched over from Simms to Cloudveil mostly because I liked the quality of the material. I hope that most of the stuff comes back and pray that the access stays the same. Personally, I wish it were still in JH as I love the area, the people and the Teton Valley side in Idaho, but I am also aware that things change (like buying a US truck mostly make in Mexico or Canada).